Monday, July 3, 2017

The New and Improved Universalist Prayer Book

"Don't worry, be happy" (Mathew, 29:1)

In a similar way, Sodom and Gomorrah and the surrounding towns gave themselves up to sexual immorality and perversion. They serve as an example of those who suffer the punishment of eternal fire, even though, technically, it's merely hypothetical.

The LORD preserveth all them that love him: but all the wicked will he destroy temporarily.

Then they will go away to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life (wink, wink).

And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever, even after they have stopped being tormented.

And so I say to you, you are Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church, and the gates of purgatory shall not prevail against it.

Their worm shall not die, and their fire shall not be quenched. And if you ride your bicycle in the street again, I'll kick you all the way to Kansas.

“Take this, all of you, and drink from it, for this is the chalice of my blood, the blood of the new and eternal covenant, which will be poured out for you and for many all many all for the forgiveness of sins…”

St. Michael the Archangel,
put into a safe place where they cannot hurt us anymore until they're sorry and ready to come out,
and all the evil spirits,
who prowl about the world seeking to put our souls in a safe place where we cannot hurt anyone until we are sorry and ready to come out.

O my Jesus,
forgive us our sins,
save us from the fires of hell,
even though it isn't seriously an issue,
but you know what I mean.

Oh, my God,
I am heartily sorry for
having offended Thee,
because I dread great empty spaces.

I now seriously question why Mary felt it necessary to traumatize all of us children with those visions, since I have come to understand that they didn't actually represent anything real.


  1. Amen! Best part: "many all many all" shoot the strikethrough doesn't work in the comments section.

  2. We feel your pain Oakes.
    Is it worse to see it smolder for decades, or just burst right out into flames as it has now.
    Breaking News: President Trump more merciful than Francis, offers to help Charlie Gard (and thereby indicating his life isn't officially over).
    No doubt Francis, putting his holy, papal finger in the air, will now try to make up for lost ground on Baby Charlie. He failed to detect the popular sentiment for this baby, so he missed a grand opportunity to sound like a Catholic.
    Hang tough, fellow travelers.

    1. Bergoglio is bad, really bad. Those of us who know him back from Argentina witnessed his hate for the Church and predicted his panzer-like behavior.

  3. Bearing false witness is a sin, Mr. Spalding.

    The fires of the next life are real. They are the fires of God's love. Those who, like the residents of Sodom and Gomorrah, love sin, will find the fiery love of God to be tormenting. Those who love God will find them to be blessing. No one who is a Patristic Universalist says that they are "hypothetical."

    You are bearing false witness and smearing the character of those who hope in God's love. Is this really Christian of you to do so?

    The Blood of Christ's Covenant was indeed poured out for all. St. Paul says so in Romans 5:16-19. Christ's salvation is for all mankind.

    The picture you post is very revealing. Is that truly what you want for your fellow man, no matter how wretchedly he has acted? Did Jesus say that if we forgive those who have sinned against us, we shall be like our heavenly Father? How then do we wish (as you appear to) to not forgive, but to torture them forever?

    Medieval torture chambers are hardly the standard of God's response to our sins.

    1. You seem to know God better than Jesus. Better to be an honest agnostic than spewing Unitarian Universalist BS made up by revisionist protestants. Eternal damnation? Yes, who are you to judge God's infinite wisdom?

    2. I'm not sure why you think I am bearing false witness, or who I am supposed to be bearing it against. I simply rewrote a few biblical passages and Catholic prayers in a satirical way to show what they would logically have to MEAN if some version of universalism is true.

      No, I don't desire anyone to be punished forever or to to be separated from God forever. I've never met a faithful Catholic who appears to have such a desire. However, the words of our Lord as well as the longstanding teaching of the Catholic Church is that that will be the fate of some people. And as a Catholic, I obviously take the words of Christ and the Church He founded seriously.

      Now, is it least logically possible that, as you have previously argued, the translators got those biblical passages wrong, and, thus, the Church has been perpetuating what is essentially a myth for 2,000 years? Sure. But if I believed that, then I would immediately chuck my Catholicism and go sell hot tubs in California.

    3. Thank you for your irenic answer, Oakes. My problem is that with the satire, some people may believe based on what you wrote that Patristic Universalists do believe that there is no hell, no punishment, and that everyone gets an express ticket to the "Pearly Gates" with entrance guaranteed. I just want people to know that this is not the belief of the Early Fathers like St. Isaac the Syrian or Clement of Rome.

      Greek scholars far FAR more learned and brilliant than I would ever hope to be in this life have said that the word "aionios" does not mean "eternal" and that Latin translators got it wrong. We have in the writings of Augustine, who is seen as the one who really kicked off this who eternal damnation party, that he hated Greek, couldn't read it, and didn't care to. So how do I trust his translation of the original languages into Latin?

      You ask about it being a "myth for 2,000 years." The correct answer is that it is a myth for about 1,500 years. In the first 500 years of the Church, there were six theological schools. Four of them taught Universalism as eschatology, one taught Annihilation, and the other one taught Eternal Conscious Torment. I find it most interesting that the last one was a school of the Latin Church. The rest were of Constantinople East.

      This makes me wonder just how much cultural norms of the Roman society were injected into the understanding of theology/soteriology. I'm sure you know that there is a large difference in how the East and West view anthropology, soteriology, sin, redemption, and eschatology.

      If I have accused you wrongly, or of wrong intent, I apologize and ask your forgiveness. This is a vast subject, one that is one the theological radar now, and unfortunately, I think we are going to see polemics from both sides for a long time to come. Polemics are usually no friend of finding the truth.

      God bless.

    4. Eddie. Give it a rest, fella.

      The One True Holy Roman Catholic and Apostolic Church has definitely taught that Hell exists as a place and you have made it well known that you are a heretic because you reject that definitive infallible teaching and you think yourself clever by citing this or that Father as though every single thing taught by a Christ Father is binding.

      If a few Church Fathers say one thing but a majority of Fathers say differently, are both binding or does the Church decide whose doctrine is binding/infallible?

      The Church not you.

      You clearly do not understand that the Church itself decided what is an isn't binding/infallible truth in the writings of the Church Fathers; no, you prolly do know it and reject it.

      You can stick with the schismatic heretics of the East if you desire but you will not sway a single reader in here so, why not just shove off and take your rambling heresy with you.

      Crack open "The Sources of Catholic Dogma" and read the following entire on Hell:


      It is only you who have forsaken the truth about Helming taught by the Catholic Church ("He who hears you hears me"0 and it is you who will not hear the Church which teaches with the authority of Jesu Christ but you attend to other voices and try to seduce men into leaving the Catholic Church established by Jesus.

      Said otherwise, you are trying to bring us another Gospel.


    5. Why do you post here in the first place Eddie?

      If salvation is universal there is no need for a Vatican, Cardinals, church buildings, CDC or even to discuss the subject.

      Why bother challenging people who, regardless their views, will be saved anyway?

    6. Eddie links to the blog of a heretic. Well, that is one way to convince others...:)

    7. Eddie happens to have a direct conection with the spirits of early Church fathers who gave him the right version of revelation. Which, by the way, does not mean anything because we are all saved regardless. Then, it would logically follow, who cares?

      That doctrine seems more like an excuse to make homosexuals and others feel good about themselves and eliminate all vestige of religion.

  4. We are already seeing the result Irish Eddie's interpretation. My guess is 95% of Catholics believe that when they die they will go to heaven. And how do these Catholic respond to this belief? Since 99.9% go to Communion on Sunday and only 0.009% go to Confession
    then a high percentage going to Communion are committing sacrilege especially when most of them are using contraception. Conclusion: The belief that everyone goes to heaven causes even more folks to go to hell.

  5. JULY 4, 2017

    FSSP priests need to interpret the Nicene Creed with Feeneyism instead of Cushingism.Bishops must be informed about the error

    JULY 4, 2017

    Rational and traditional Catholic apologetics based on Feeneyism and not Cushingism

  6. When the Church Fathers seem to begin disagreement,weho decides what is to be held definitively/infalliby and by what standard?

    It is the Church which decides, not eddie or his atheist source.

    Jimmy Akin has a good response to the question here:

  7. See paragraph 12 here